How Should We Act With ‘Other Groups’?


Sheikh Atabek Shukurov here presents a very disturbing article about the shocking and unhinjed statements of the senior-most Salafi Imams on how to deal with dissenters. Be warned, not for the faint of heart…

How we should act with ‘opposing groups’?

Well, we could start by examining this advice, or rather a fatwa from the book of ‘Sharh Sunnah’ of Barbahari (the untouchable and beloved Imam of Salafis):


– Some scholars said (and unfortunately Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal RA is one of them);

A Jahmite is a Kafir!

He is not Ahl-Qibla (Not a Muslim)!

Permissible to be killed!

Doesn’t get an inheritance (from his Muslim Relatives), nor do they get it from him!

– If you see someone sitting with the Bid’atis then warn him and let him know what he is doing is wrong! And if he goes to them after knowing then stay away from him because he is Bid’ati!

– If you see someone from Ahl Sunnah has bad behaviour, is disobedient, non-righteous, a sinner, making errors, so stay with him as long as he is Sunni! But if you see someone working hard to worship (God), staying away from luxuries in life, and lost his comfortable life by worshipping, so don’t sit with him! Don’t listen to him! Don’t walk with him! Because you are not secured from been inclined to his opinion, so you will go astray!

Sufyan Thawri said; Any one listens to the Bid’ati, will leave the protection of God! And will be left over with the Bid’as.

This is the first portion of quotations from different scholars about how we should be acting with the differing groups of Muslims. It was from the Hanabila. There will be some more from them, and then from Hanafis. At the end I will make conclusion. Me posting these opinions doesn’t mean that I accept them. But each single person who is making these statements are responsible for their own opinions. I only can comment here by saying; Oh, Really?!


Barbahari carries on in his book ‘Sharh Sunnah’:

Dawood bin Abu Hind said; God revealed to Prophet Musa bin Imran; Don’t sit with the people of Bid’a! If you sit with them and find confusion in your heart, I will throw you into Hellfire!

Fudail bin Iyad said; Any one keeps a company of innovator, will not be given wisdom. Don’t keep the company of innovators, because I think if you do, you will be cursed (by God)!

Anyone loves an innovator, God will nullify his good deeds, and the light of Islam will leave his heart!

If you see an innovator in one street then walk through different street!

It comes to this; Don’t sit with them! Don’t walk in the street where you see an innovator! Don’t like him! Your deeds will be nullified!

All of these are big claims! Don’t we need a Quranic proof for them?


Barbahari carries on;

Fudail bin Iyad said; Anyone who respects an innovator is the one who is helping to ruin Islam.

Anyone who smiles at the face of an innovator is the one who is humiliating what God revealed to Muhammad PBUH.

Anyone marries off his daughter to an innovator cut his family chains

Anyone follows the burial of an innovator, God will carry on been angry at him until he comes back!

Fudaid bin Iyad said; I will eat with a Jewish and Christian person but I won’t eat with an innovator. I would love to have an iron curtain between me and an innovator.

If God knows that some person hates an innovator He will forgive him, even if this person has little knowledge.

No Sunni can keep a good relationship with an innovator except by hypocrisy!

Any one who turns his face away from an innovator, God will fill his heart with Iman. Anyone who speaks harshly to an innovator, God will give him a peace in the Great Fear of the Last day.

Anyone that humiliates an innovator God will give him 100 levels in Paradise!

This then is the opinion of Hanbalis about Innovators. Obviously, each group calls the opposite group innovators. Meaning that no Muslim should be speaking to any other Muslim…


From the book of ”Sunnah” of Abdullah son of Imam Ahmad (the founder of Hanbali madhab)

”I asked my father (Ahmad bin Hanbal) about praying behind an innovator.

He said; ”It is not allowed to pray behind them, such as Jahmite and Mutazilite! Ibrahim bin Tahman said; Jahmites are disbelievers, and Qadaris are Disbelievers. Kharija said; Jahmites are disbelievers! O people, let the wives of Jahmites know that they are divorcees! Its not permissible for them to live with their husbands! Don’t visit when they are ill! Don’t attend their burial! then he recited Surah Taha uto (Ar-Rahman ‘Alal-‘Arshi stawaa) then said; istawa doesn’t have any meaning but sitting!

Ibn Mubarak said; Jahmites are kuffar! Hasan bin Isa said; Jahmites are kuffar and the ones who are not sure that Jahmites kuffar are kuffar too!

Sufyan bin ‘Uyayna said; Quran is the word of God. Anyone says that it is created is kafir! And the one who doubts that he is Kafir is kafir too!

Sufyan bin ‘Uyayna said; Anyone says that the Quran is created has to be crucified on a mountain!”

There are a few points;

1. This book is also taught in their (Salafis/Wahhabis) institutes and mosques. And you can find it’s audio lectures on the net

2. The main foundation of their aqeeda is; ‘Sunna’ of Abdulla son of Ahmad, ‘Sunna’ of Ibn Batta, ‘Sunna’ Ibn Abu Asim, and the ‘Sharh Sunna’ of Barbahari. And all of these books are full of this takfeer, and the fatwas of chopping off the heads or crucifying the opposite groups.

3. ‘Jahmites’ are the ones who don’t accept the literal meaning of the ‘Mutashabihat’ (ambiguous or metaphorical passages of the Quran), so it includes each single Muslim except Salafis – Asharis, Maturidis, Mu’tazzila, Shia, Sufis etc. Even Khawarij accept the Quran’s metaphorical meaning. So when they say ‘Jahmites’, they mean the majority of Muslims through history (Abu Hanifa, Malik, Al Ghazzali, Imam Razi, As Suyuti, Ibn Hajar, Al Juwayni, Qadi iyad, Ibn Jawzi, Ibn Qudamah…) and living today.

4. By ‘Qadaris’ they mean the ones who don’t believe that humans are forced to do what is predestined to them. So it is again everyone except them and Ash’aris.

5. Not having certainty about some kafir being kafir is not kufr! It is just that these people have an obsession with takfeer.

6. ‘Istawa’ not having any other meaning except ‘sitting’, is just absurd. It proves that this guy doesn’t have adequate breadth of knowledge of the Arabic Language.

I am not here to criticise Salafi aqeeda – their aqeeda has been criticised academically by many great scholars. My intention here is to show how we Muslims (Salafis, Maturidis, Ash’aris) are oppressing each other by these fatwas of such and such which goes against the teaching of the Quran and real sunna of the Prophet (not the sunna of Ahmad or his son).

Let’s look next at the issue from the Hadith point of view:


First Hadeeth says;

Qadaris are Zoroastrians of this nation. Don’t visit them when they are ill! Don’t attend their burial when they die! Abu Huraira RA narrated; Each nation has Zoroastrians in them. And the Zoroastrians of this nation are Qadaris. Don’t visit them when they are ill! Don’t pray their Janaza when they are dead!

The meaning of ”Qadari” it is the person who doesn’t believe that you are forced to do what ever God has predestined for you. Meaning this hadeeth is about Mu’tazila and Maturidis, as Salafis and Ash’aris, so they both believe in it. Also, pay attention that the text of these hadeeths is ‘copied and pasted’ by Barbahari and his collegues

But both of the hadeeths are fabricated (so it proves that Barbahari and his friends don’t have great knowledge of Hadeeth).


Please follow the text;

”Anyone who humiliates the innovator, God will fill his heart by tranquillity and belief! When you see an innovator then humiliate him to his face (not behind his back)! Because, Glorious God hates all of the innovators! Not one of them will pass the Sirat! But they will be falling off from the Sirat as locusts and flies! When some innovator dies there will be great opening for Islam! Any innovator who denies Destiny, God will not even look at his case but he will be thrown into Hell! Even if he will be killed by being oppressed between two corners of Ka’ba! Even if he will be patient with the oppressive murderer ,expecting a reward from God!” 

All of these hadeeths are fabricated!

Look at the last one! The one who fabricated it is shameless hypocrite who attributes an oppression to God!


”God will be angry when some disobedient person is praised! Any one shows respect to the disobedient is helping the destruction of Islam!” 

Another pile of fabricated narrations!

But pay attention to the 100% similarity between the previous fatawa and the text of these narrations. So I think that they were giving fatwa based on these fabricated texts.


”Anyone who doesn’t have  money for Sadaqa (rewardable charity), then let him curse the Jews! Anyone speaks in religious issues by using his Brain, so kill him!”
Look at the first Hadeeth. That could be the reason of the Muslims cursing the opposite Groups and Religions.
The second Hadeeth is fabricated about Abu Hanifa and Hanafis.
So how we should be acting with the opposite groups? So far we were quoting from Salafi sources about acting with the other groups. Next I will mention Hanafi fatwas about this issue. If you go to the mosques of Hanafis you will hear these fatwas from the imams. Now it is time for us to see what is written about this issue in our Hanafi-Maturidi sources – now it is time for honesty.
Anti-Salafi people will be very positive with the quotations from Salafi sources. So if these anti-salafis were honest in their concern then now we will see their comments about their own sources…The text is from Abu Maeen Nasafi –
He says in his book on aqeeda; Hasan Basri said; There is no more worshipping except backbiting the sceptics (innovators). Anas RA narrated from the Prophet PBUH; Anyone takes off the curtain of shame from the innovator, he hasn’t done any wrong. Musa bin Muslim said; If I find anyone says Quran is created I will fight against him till the death! Ibn Abbas Narrates from the Prophet PBUH Anyone smiles to the face of innovator, he is the one who helps the destruction of Islam. Anyone respects the innovator he is helping the destruction of Islam. Abu Hawdaa said; I like better to live with the monkeys and pigs than living with the man of hawa (innovator).
First of all all of these hadeeths are weak and fabricated. This term ”innovator” means anyone who opposes you; So if you are Salafi then Sufis, Maturidis, Asharis, and within your own Salafi sect; Salmanis, Rabeeis, Wadeis etc. And if you are sufi then the innovators for you are; Salafis, Zaidis, Ibadis Shia. And also within your own Sufi sect any one doesn’t follow your tareeqa, and even within your own tareeqa, anyone doesn’t follow your own sheikh. So all of them are innovators.
Second, as we see, in our own Maturidi texts we also have all of these fatwas which are 100% according to what Barbahari said. We all were angry at Barbahari, and will we have enough honesty to be angry on our own leaders? (By the way I don’t accept these fatwas, even if it is from Abu Maeen Nasafi).
Abu Maeen carries on;
”Don’t sit with the innovators, don’t debate with them, and don’t listen to them! Abu Idrees Khawlani said; Abu Jameel doesn’t believe in Qadar, so don’t sit with him! Hasan (Basri) said; If you meet an innovator in one street, then go through different one! Sufyan said; Don’t eat in the house of innovator! Don’t feed him in his house! Don’t sit with him in the same place! Don’t debate with him! Prophet PBUH said; Any one turns away his face from the innovator God will fill his heart with belief and certainty! And anyone humiliates the innovator, God will give him 100 darajas (degrees or levels) in Paradise! The Prophet PBUH said; ‘A person is in the religion of his friend, so look whom you chose to be your friend!’ Ibn Abbas said; ‘Anyone who destroys the innovation of an innovator, so he is in the path of God!’
This is the last quotation from Abu Maeen so we need to clarify one very important thing.
This book of Abu Maeen is published by Orientalists. And this book is not famous amongst Muslim scholars – we only have a very limited number of manuscripts of this book (I think there is only one in the whole world). Based on that all I will say is that most likely it is one of the books that is fabricated by a ”Saint Paul” of Islam to create enmity between Muslims. Secondly, it is exactly what Barbahari said, so whatever I said there applies here also. Thirdly, as for setting up a friendship, this is a slightly different case. We ‘steal’ from each other physiologically. So, if you spend one year with noble people, you start behaving in their noble way. If you spend one year with lowly and cowardly people you will be acting like them soon enough. That’s why this advice (regardless if the hadeeth is weak) is very important. And it is nothing to do with hatred.
Fourth; refuting the errors and wrong beliefs should be done academically – The Quran is full of clarification of errors such as the Trinity, idol worshipping and many mistakes that people have. So it is the duty of the scholars (and not everyone) to discuss the errors. But does this discussion have to be in one way? I say; No! – You should be wise; So with the honest people only just a few very balanced advises will be enough. But with hardline and arrogant people you may need to crush their idols as Ibrahim PBUH did. But again, not everyone, and not every time!
As for the Ash’aris – they have the same fatawa – So we (Salafis, Maturidis, Ash’aris) disagreed in many issues (some of it related to belief in God) – but we all agreed to hate each other. So we gave the same exact fatwa!
Also, I wont quote from the latest Hanafis (within the last 150 years). That is because, the works of the latest Hanafis are full of very bad insults, such as; they are pigs, filthy etc. We have many different sects within Hanafis. And they each consider the opposite Hanafis as filth, innovators etc. That’s why we don’t talk to each other, we hate each other, and we don’t smile at each other.
Next we will post the verses from Quran to see what God said about this issue.
We saw the fatawa of ‘Fulan and Fulan’ and we saw the behaviour of the groups and sects that is based on these fatawas. Now, it’s time for us to look at what God said about this issue. As we all know the level of the strength of the sources of Islam is sadly as following in our day and age:
1. Vision and opinion of my peer (spiritual guide or leader)
2. The statement of Fulan (who died withitn the last 100 years)
3. Opinion of Fulan (who died within 700 years)
4. Mu’tamad of my Madhab
5. Hadeeth from Bukhari and Muslim
6. Hadeeth from the books of Sunan
7. Quran (most likely we will find the ‘truth’ before reaching the Quran, because we have 6 ‘strong’ sources of Islam before it)
Now, lets look into The Quran. What does it say about this issue?
Q: Can we speak to the opposite groups?
God says; And speak to people good [words]! 2;83
I know the emotional people will straight away will say; ”Yes, but innovators are not ”people” but they are pigs and monkeys! – I am sorry but that is ridiculous.
Q: Can I sit and speak with the opposite groups? And can I have a good relationship with them, especially if the sheikh of that group criticized my sheikh in such and such issue?
God says; O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.


Q. Is it permissible to sit with the opposite group and eat with them and walk in the same street where they are?

God said; And indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so fear Me. But the people divided their religion among them into sects – each faction, in what it has, rejoicing. 23;52-53



Q. If someone from another group says some incorrect statement about some issue, shall I show an angry face, and shall I humiliate him as Barbahari and Nasafi narrated from Hasan Basri, Sufyan and Fudaib bin Iyad?

God says; And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace, 25;63



And finally;
Q. How come you are opposing Sufyan and Fudail and Hasan? Isn’t it that Fulan and Fulan said; Any one opposes these scholars, he is not in Sunnah?
I say; Anyone who opposes Quran he is not in Islam!
So they who have believed in him, honoured him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him – it is those who will be the successful. 7;157
Let’s finish off this topic…
Q. What did The Prophet PBUH says about;
1. Not speaking to a Bid’ati Muslim
2. Turning away your face
3. Not walking in the same street with him
4. Humiliating him to his face
5. Showing an angry face
6. Living with pigs but not with him
7. Hatred against him so God fills your heart by ”Iman”
8. Hatred against him so God forgives you etc
So Prophet PBUH responds to all of these questions;
Abu Ayub RA narrated from the Prophet PBUH; ”It is not permissible for a Muslim to leave his Brother for more than three nights. [Its not permitted for them to] meet each other and one of them turns away from the second and the second turns away from the first one! And the best of them two is the one who speaks first!
Malik and Bukhari Abu Huraira RA narrated from the Prophet PBUH;
”O people, don’t do ill thoughts about each other! Indeed the ill thought is the biggest lie! Don’t spy on each other! Don’t be jealous towards each other! Don’t hate each other! O slaves of God, be brothers as God ordered you! The Muslim is a brother of a Muslim! So he doesn’t oppress him, doesn’t disown him, doesn’t humiliate him! Cautiousness is here (he repeated that three times pointing to his chest). It is good enough for a person to be an evil man just to humiliate his Brother! It is prohibited for Muslims their blood, possessions, Honour!
Also narrated; O people, don’t compete with each other! Don’t leave each other! Don’t cut the chain between each other! …
Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim
Where is the Prophetic Islam and barbarian Islam? No comments needed, except that there are some evil shuykh and molanas who will say; ‘They are not Muslims but gustakhs, pigs, khabeeths…’ Well, if the word of God and Prophet doesn’t convince you then no one can convince you!
Further, Prophet PBUH said; ”Any one leaves his brother for more than three days, he enters the hell unless God shows him a Mercy”. Authentic, narrated by Tabarani 
Prophet PBUH said; ‘It is not permissible for a Muslim to leave his brother for more than three nights. If they do so, then they are away from the guidance as long as they insist on it! Any of them starts speaking will be forgiven! And when he speaks but the second doesn’t respond Angels will respond to him, and Satan will respond to the second one! But if they insist on not speaking, they wont enter Paradise, Never!’
Ahmad and Tabarani, authentic
Prophet Said; ”Not speaking for one year equals to the sin of killing him” Hakim
So, all of these fatawas of fulan and fulan was taking us to Hell!
Please keep in your mind that ‘Fulan and Fulan’ (‘so and so’) scholars could give 100% obviously erroneous fatwas too. And this post is good example of such fatwas!
1. All of those fatawa are nothing but trial to destroy Islam
2. From today onward we don’t worship ‘Fulans’

3. Quranic Islam and Quranic God is much more merciful than barbarian Islam and barbarian God!







3 thoughts on “How Should We Act With ‘Other Groups’?

  1. I think there are many points that should be clarified. If not, this article just add another confusions to lay Muslims minds.

    Of course if there are contradictions between the Qur`an and some persons opinion we must follow the Qur`an and neglect what the persons said, even if the persons are respected scholars. But the question is, does the contradiction exist? We should make thorough research before make any statements or conclusions regarding the opinion.

  2. Pingback: What Really Radicalises Muslims | Asharis: Assemble

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